27 June 2022 APG RHRG Meeting Minutes

Minutes - RHRG APG Meeting

Date: Monday 27 June 2022
Time: 12:00pm
Location: Committee Room 30, Parliament Buildings
Chairperson: Robbie Butler MLA
Minutes taken by: James Mayne and Connor Hogan, Chambré

Members Present

Robbie Butler MLA
Philip McGuigan MLA
Justin McNulty MLA
Mark Durkan MLA
Paul Frew MLA
Sinéad Ennis MLA
Cathy Mason MLA
Áine Murphy MLA

Apologies

Paula Bradshaw MLA
Pam Cameron MLA
Brian Kingston MLA
Stephen Dunne MLA
Danny Donnelly MLA
Nick Mathison MLA
Maolíosa McHugh MLA
William Irwin MLA
John Stewart MLA 

External Guests

Will Chambré – Chambré
James Mayne - Chambré
Connor Hogan – Chambré 

Derek Webb
Allastar Gair – Interel, APPG Secretariat 

Martina Campbell – DfC
Michael Smyth – DfC

Declan Lynch – Sinn Féin
Pete Keogh – GwL
Sadie Keogh – GwL
Ellen Finlay – Samaritans
Diane Owens – CCEA
Erin McEvoy – Ulster University
Scott Taylor – Department of Health
Debbie Sharpe – Department of Health
Joanna Purdy – Institute of Public Health
Emer Boyle – Committee for Communities Assembly Clerk

Minutes

1.       Welcome

Robbie Butler MLA welcomed members to the meeting and gave a brief introduction on the goals of the APG. 

2.       Election of Officers

Election of officers took place with unanimous decisions on the following:

• Robbie Butler MLA – Chairperson

• Philip McGuigan MLA – Vice-Chairperson

• Justin McNulty MLA – Treasurer

• Paul Frew MLA – Secretary

3.       Introductory Remarks

Robbie gave a short introduction to gambling harm in NI and reform in GB and the Republic.

Allastar Gair briefed the APG on the UK White Paper and the work of the APPG:

·       Publication of White Paper will be largest overhaul of gambling laws since 2005, expected in a number of weeks.

·       Key reforms expected: affordability checks, ban on advertising, statutory levy and a gambling ombudsman.

·       They are confident that they will get some, but likely not all. Lobbying from the industry to compete with.

·       Also highlighted the work of Peers for Gambling Reform.

Agreed: Allaster will meet the APG again once the White Paper is published to brief the members.

·       Robbie then proceeded to introduce the work of the APG. He cited the APG’s report into the future of gambling regulation in NI, and the 38 recommendations (click here to view the report).

·       Robbie then introduced Philip and expressed his interest in rotating the chairing of APG meetings this mandate.

·       Philip thanked Robbie and welcomed Derek Webb to the meeting, and thanked him for his support. He then outlined the challenge ahead for the APG with the second phase of gambling regulation.

·       He mentioned the APG’s report into its short inquiry into gaming machines, which will be released in September, pending approval from the members. Philip also raised the Cross-Departmental Working Group which was established last year by the Communities Minister, and invited Martina to update the APG on the group’s progress.

·       Robbie then introduced Derek Webb.

4.       Message from Derek Webb

·       Derek thanked the group for their work, and said that he was happy to continue his support. He cited the success of the GB FOBT campaign in reducing gambling-related harm.

·       He raised the issue of enforcement of the law around FOBTs in NI, and said that their current status was illegal as regards stake/prize limits plus number of machines under the 1985 Order.

·       Robbie asked Derek what he would like to see in the next phase of NI gambling legislation. Derek said the FOBT issue needs to be addressed. 

·       Derek is happy to attend any future meetings or provide input via email.

5.       Update from Martina Campbell

·       Martina welcomed the opportunity for the Department to work closely with the APG this mandate.

·       The Department is finalising the outcome report on the initial consultation for the Codes of Practice (CoPs), and are redrafting the CoPs based on the initial responses (over thirty).

·       The Department has updated all the guidance on their website – this will go live soon.

·       On the Cross-Departmental Group: the representatives from the Department of Health have recently changed again. Martina and her team are waiting for those reps to get up to speed on gambling before they have another meeting (introductory meeting scheduled for later in July).

·       Data collection: her team was criticised during the amendment bill process for lack of data. Part of this was because NISRA wasn’t doing face-to-face surveys due to Covid. The Department is now looking to outsource this and to secure funding for a prevalence study. Separately, they have managed to secure to get a set of questions in the Young People Behaviour and Attitudes Survey. So should have better data re: young people sometime next year.

·       Phase 2: They are currently doing some preliminary work on the scope and scale of what is needed for the next Bill.

·       FOBTs: reiterated that the Department for Communities sets the framework, but it is the PSNI who is responsible for enforcing it.

·       In response to a question from the chair, Martina said that the outcome report on the consultation of the CoPs will be in the next few weeks, and then sometime in September for a revised draft of the CoPs. She estimated 18 months for the Bill, however that is subject to resourcing and the wider political context.

·       The Team will be keeping an eye on developments in GB, the Republic and further abroad.

·       Paul Frew asked if Martina could break down the responses to the draft CoPs by organisation. Martina confirmed that she will send this information to Connor following the meeting, but would estimate it was majority industry responses (as well as from the APG itself and health organisations). Michael Smyth confirmed this.

·       Paul Frew then asked about a pamphlet the Department was due to produce to help bank customers understand the change in the law as regards banking prize draws. Martina confirmed that this pamphlet has been produced, and will be published very soon.

6.       Letter to the PSNI re: FOBTs

·       Philip raised the draft APG response to the Assistant Chief Constable’s letter regarding the enforcement of the law around FOBTs, which members received for review.

Agreed: members were content with the letters contents, and agreed for it to be sent.

7.       Work Programme

·       The the APG’s outcome report of the short inquiry into gaming machines is currently being finalised. Pending approval from members, it was suggested that a launch event be hosted in the Long Gallery in September.

·       Will asked Martina if there were any areas Martina would like the group to focus on as we enter the second phase of regulation. Martina will get back to the group on this.

·       Advertising in sport: GAA has banned gambling sponsorships. Perhaps the APG could look into encouraging/promoting similar moves with other sports/leagues.

·       Paul Frew highlighted the extent of the gambling harm which children are exposed to through sport advertising. Martina noted that advertising is a reserved matter, however she would still encourage the APG to engage with the issue.

·       Philip suggested that someone from the Dáil could update the APG on the progress of the Bill there.

·       Mark Durkan raised the issue of scratch cards as a means of encouraging problem gambling through ease of access. He suggested the APG should work closely with our colleagues in Westminster on the issue of scratch cards and lotteries, particularly while the Assembly is not meeting.

·       Will suggested that the APG could conduct an inquiry into the public health dimension of gambling regulation in NI. The Department of Health could be mandated to produce a gambling harm strategy. He further noted that scratch cards and lotteries will be included in the second phase.

·       Martina notes that the Communities Minister has written to her DCMS counterpart on the issue of advertising. She would encourage the APG to push the issue with our Westminster colleagues.

·       Will Chambré suggested that we hear from the APPG at Westminster once the White Paper is published, and concurred with Philip that a meeting with Oireachtas representatives would also be useful.

·       Mark Durkan noted that the issue of gambling advertising extends far beyond sport.

·       Justin McNulty said that the APG should avoid becoming a commentariat, and re-emphasised the damage that gambling harm has caused for communities here.

·       Philip noted that the public health focus remains on the likes of cigarettes, drugs and alcohol, and thus the APG should act as a “shining light” on gambling to get the public health focus it needs.

·       Paul Frew suggested that officials from the Department of Health could meet with the APG to specifically discuss the public health issue. The Secretariat noted that the Department officials have been consistently engaged, as well as the Department of Education authorities.

·       Philip asked the Secretariat to draw up a draft document outlining our work programme for the next meeting.

Agreed: The Secretariat will produce a draft document outlining the APG’s work programme for approval at the next meeting.

8.       Any other Business

None

9.       Date of Next Meeting

Monday 5 September.